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Have you ever felt like you just can’t crack the code when it comes to Instagram? With constant algorithm changes and the pressure to create viral content, it’s no wonder this platform remains a challenge to so many business owners. Not Michelle Gifford though! Michelle is an Instagram growth strategist who has demystified the platform and provided a strategic approach to building and growing your Instagram account with intention. As a matter of fact, she grew her own account from 18,000 to 236,000 followers in just 18 months, not by luck, but by applying specific strategies that can work for anyone.
Today, we’re breaking down Michelle’s key strategies, including actionable steps you can take to grow your Instagram account, nurture your audience, and ultimately convert followers into customers. Let’s dive in!
Leveraging the Power of Strategy on Instagram
“You have to be known for one thing before you can be known for all the things.”
Most entrepreneurs make the mistake of approaching Instagram without a clear strategy. They treat it merely as a social platform rather than a powerful tool for business growth! That’s why it’s important to be strategic with your content, focusing on what you want to be known for. By niching down and becoming an expert in one area, you make it easier for your audience to understand your brand, talk about you, and eventually purchase your products and services.
Actionable Step: Identify your niche and focus on becoming known for one thing. This clarity will guide your content creation and help you grow a dedicated following.
Creating a Content Funnel on Instagram
“You can actually have a strategy that makes sense... It makes content creation easier, and it makes your life less stressful.”
One of the most impactful strategies you can implement is applying content marketing principles to Instagram. By setting up your content in a way that imitates a traditional marketing funnel, you’re able to create different types of content with specific purposes: attracting new followers, nurturing existing ones, and selling to your audience.
Actionable Step: Implement the "3-2-1 Method" for your content. Post three pieces of attraction content, two pieces of nurture content, and one piece of sales content each week. This balance ensures that you're continuously growing your audience, building trust, and driving conversions.
Attraction Content: Drawing in Your Ideal Audience
“You have to create content that attracts people in... If you don’t have that, then you’re stagnant and you’re not growing.”
Attraction content is all about creating posts that bring new people to your account. It should take the form of bite-sized, highly shareable content that solves a specific problem for your target audience. For example, one of Michelle’s students saw significant growth by sharing short, actionable cleaning tips, which were easy for followers to save and share.
Actionable Step: Analyze the popular content in your niche and create your own version that is quick, actionable, and shareable. This could be tips, hacks, or memes that resonate with your ideal audience.
Nurture Content: Building Trust and Connection
“You’re in a relationship with a follower and also with a customer... You want to build trust, you want to build authority.”
Nurture content is about deepening the relationship with your existing followers. This type of content should provide value, share your story, and demonstrate your expertise. Carousels and talking head videos are highly-effective formats for nurture content because they allow you to dive deeper into specific topics and connect on a more personal level.
Actionable Step: Share personal stories, behind-the-scenes content, or in-depth explanations that build trust with your audience. Remember, the goal is to prepare them for a purchase by showing them why they should trust you.
Sales Content: Converting Followers into Customers
"[Instagram] Stories are the most valuable place on the internet... No other platform has been able to duplicate the value of Stories and the closeness and the community that you can build with them."
Sales content is where you directly ask your audience to take action, whether it's purchasing a product, signing up for a service, or joining a webinar. Instagram Stories is an optimal platform for selling, as it allows for more personal, direct communication with your audience.
Actionable Step: Create engaging, story-driven sales content that speaks directly to the needs of your audience. The use of hooks and storytelling will make your sales content more compelling, and ultimately, more effective on Instagram Stories.
Start Where You Are and Keep Going
“We need your voice. We need your message... And you just have to start.”
The most important takeaway from Michelle's interview is the encouragement to start where you are. You don't have to be perfect at content creation; you just have to start and keep improving. Instagram is a powerful tool that, when used strategically, can help you grow your business and reach your ideal audience.
Actionable Step: Audit your Instagram account using Michelle's Instagram Audit Checklist to identify areas for improvement and start implementing the strategies discussed today. To get the Instagram Audit Checklist, go to Michelle’s Instagram account and DM “millionaire.”
…Class Dismissed!
Instagram doesn't have to feel overwhelming or be a source of frustration. By applying Michelle’s strategies, you can take control of your Instagram growth and turn your account into a powerful tool for your business. Remember to be strategic, focus on your niche, and create content that attracts, nurtures, and converts your audience. Start implementing these strategies today, and watch your Instagram presence grow!
Want to hear the full interview with Michelle? Click here!
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Transcript
Michelle: [00:00:00] People may be listening who have discounted Instagram because they've never thought of it strategically. They're only using it as a social platform, and then they post content without a strategy, and then they blame Instagram, they blame the algorithm, and say, this doesn't work for me.
Kirsten: Who's ready to start growing intentionally on Instagram and stop treating it like the enemy when it comes to growth and exposure for your business and your offers? I'm raising my hand over here, which is why we've brought on Michelle Gifford today. She's an Instagram growth strategist of the highest caliber.
She knows her stuff, and it personally went from 18, 000 to 236, 000 followers, and she And growing in just a matter of 18 months. She's going to share a strategy that's actually going to help us use Instagram with intention so that we can build and grow and become exposed to the ideal clients and customers that our business needs to reach.
So let's take all the mystery and the fear out of Instagram with the amazing Michelle Gifford. Class is officially in session. Hey, Michelle, [00:01:00] welcome to Millionaire University. So excited to have you here. You and I go back a long time and I knew I needed to share all of your, Genius with our listeners here.
You are an Instagram guru of in all the right ways. So thanks for coming on and being willing to share this masterclass on Instagram with us.
Michelle: I'm really excited. Any hour with you is a fun time. And talking about Instagram, like I'm all in. Double in for sure.
Kirsten: Cool. Why don't you give us a little bit of your backstory?
Because you've been on Instagram a good long time. But in the last year, two years, you've had some really significant growth. And I think that is due to the fact that we've moved out of this very unpredictable world of social media into a very strategic approach. So I want to just give a little bit of your background story as an entrepreneur and an entrepreneur using Instagram and then let's dive into that strategy.
Michelle: Perfect. So I've been on Instagram and I've been in business doing online business for years. And I help women grow businesses and that's what I've done. And I love to teach and I love to coach and really help women figure out their stuff. I [00:02:00] have a marketing agency, so like I'm in it, right? And so I, for a long time was trying to grow on Instagram and I was talking about all of the business stuff, like everything, blogging, email, Pinterest, Instagram, all on one account.
And I was really frustrated. Have you ever felt frustrated that you're not growing? Yes, I was there and I was so mad about it. And I was like, why is Instagram hate me? The algorithm is the worst. And back in 2022, it was like almost, like almost two years ago in September. I was like, Hey, listen, I'm done.
Like, I am going to figure out Instagram. Like, I'm so sick of this and there has to be a strategic way to do it. Now, Instagram a long time ago, eight years ago, it really was like a popular, like you had to be, it felt like you had to be popular or whatever. Instagram has completely changed and now it's more of a search base.
And so I knew that I've been on social media long enough to understand the changes in the algorithm that happened. And so I was like, I'm doing this and I'm niching down to Instagram. That was about in [00:03:00] September. So I started posting and showing up. Talking about Instagram for two, three months. In December, I had one reel go viral and then I had another and then another.
And so I had an account that went from 18, 000 followers. That's what I was in September, October. And now my account is a year and a half later at 236, 000 followers. And not just because of viral reels, but because of very specific strategy, because I've been doing Instagram and I've been doing content marketing forever.
And I was like, why is no one applying the content marketing principles to Instagram? And so I started doing that and I started to set up my content, like a content funnel. And when I did that, everything changed. Cause not only was I growing finally, but I was also made space to have content that educated my audience and then sold my audience and to take that next step.
Because I'm not here for virality, right? Like I don't need a million followers if no one's going to pay me a dollar. [00:04:00] Like I want it to be an actual business. And so once I applied the strategy to Instagram, everything changed for me. And it not only worked for me, but it worked for my students and my clients.
And so it's just been a huge mindset shift and also a burden lifted because it's not just us throwing darts at the wall to see what sticks. It's I, I think I mixed up my metaphors. Not just throwing darts or spaghetti on the wall to see what it tastes like. Darts at a dartboard or spaghetti at the wall to see what's gonna win, right?
Yeah. But you can actually have a strategy that makes sense. It makes content creation easier. It makes your life less It makes Instagram less personal, right? Cause it's like, Oh, we got 50 likes. Then you feel like really bad that people don't like your content. But instead you're like, Oh, that's information.
Kirsten: Yeah.
Michelle: And so I can actually build a strategy. Around my Instagram, instead of feeling like it's out of my control, there's nothing I can do. And it's just, if the algorithm gods decide they like me, then I'm going to win and it doesn't have to be like that. So it's been a really wild 18 months and it's been [00:05:00] amazing to watch at what getting serious about my Instagram has done to my business and it's really changed everything.
Kirsten: Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about that, too, because like you said, you don't want just a million followers if they're not willing to give you a dollar. That right there is a great little tagline. You should put that in your back pocket, carry that around everywhere you go. So what has this look like?
What does this look like for your business? Because I know a lot about your business. You and I have been business friends for a long time. And so how has that transformed? Because even just some of the things you've been able to introduce as you've been, you Consistent. And I want to go backwards too and talk about the value of niching down.
But for you, it's exciting to have the huge follower count, but what has been the even greater win on your end with business?
Michelle: Yeah, I think that we can get really precious about what we do and what we're saying. And it's like, wow, is this me? You know, I was like, I'm more than Instagram. I'm not just going to talk about Instagram.
I'm email marketing too, dang it. And I was like really precious about it. And then I realized that if there's a really great quote, or it's called the [00:06:00] Sheehan's Wall Principle, I think Rory Vaden talks about it a lot, but it's, you have to be known for one thing before you can be known for all the things.
Oprah is a good example, right? Michael Jordan, all the faithful. They were, you have to choose one thing to be really good at, and then it's easy to be known for the rest of the things. And so once someone could say, Oh, look how much Michelle grew, she's an Instagram expert, it actually made it a lot easier for people to talk about me and then hire my agency to do the work, even though the work isn't always Instagram, sometimes it's Pinterest, sometimes it's email, sometimes it's launching and branding and website design, but we do all those things, but I had to be known as one thing before anyone could know how to talk about me.
And so it's opened up stages for me where I'm able to speak on some of the biggest business stages. You know, I was at Tropic and Convergence Summit. I'm, you know, on the social media pot examiner podcast and with Amy Porterfield a little bit ago. And all these stages opened once I was like, Oh, okay. Like I'm niching down and stages are great, but you know, making money is [00:07:00] even better.
And so that has completely changed my product offering. I used to offer like all of these different courses. And it was really hard to sell, like a blogging course sometimes, and then a Pinterest course sometimes, you know, and I had all these different courses and just really narrowing in on the really simple customer journey path has made a huge difference because now I can be like, okay, this is the actual transformation I'm promising and I can deliver it before it was a little bit vague.
I'm just going to help your business grow. Okay. Like, how do I sell that? That's really hard. But now I'm in a place where I'm like, no, I'm going to help you actually get followers and make more sales, like on Instagram, that's a lot easier to sell. And so it's really simplified the path, not only for me and how I create content, but also for my audience.
Cause if you're confusing people, then you lose people, right? Donald Miller always says that. So. It made it easy because people could follow exactly what I want them to do, the path that I've set out for them. Yeah,
Kirsten: it sounds like such a relief after years and years of [00:08:00] grinding it out and trying to figure out how to master these social media platforms.
And I know you talk a lot about this, how people have the perspective of it's the algorithms out to get me and you had all these same feelings and then you faced it head on instead of looking it through that victim lens of I just can't succeed on Instagram. I just can't do it. You put the focus on the things that needed to happen in order for you to start actually seeing traction.
In the beginning, were you aware of there was more of a strategy that could be at play here? Or was it something you fell into as you started being more intentional? And you were like, whoa, holy cow, I had no idea. Because I know Instagram has changed. It's gone from more of a popularity platform to more of an intentional one.
Michelle: So this has been something that I knew would work. But I, by darn, am a little bit stubborn. Like, I knew that if I niched down, that I'd be able to grow. And I, but I was like, if I start sharing the, this content that is a lot more share worthy, I was a little prideful about it. Like that is such easy content.
Like, is that okay? Is [00:09:00] that okay for me to share? And then I realized I've been using the content funnel system forever, right? Attracts, you have content that attracts people in, you have content that nurtures and then you have content that sells. That's not. Revolutionary people do that. But then I realized that if I applied that to my Instagram account and realized that there were, there was content that, that is job, the content's job is to get new followers and then there's other content's job that is to nurture and to sell.
And so then I was like, Oh, okay. Like I can create this reel that has a higher likelihood of going viral or getting a lot of shares and saves and views. And that is part of my whole strategy. Then I was like, Oh, okay, that makes sense to me. And it felt like easier. So I had to get over myself. Like we all do.
Like we have to just be like, stop being precious about your business and do the thing that you know, that's going to work. We're like, I just want it to represent me. And I'm like, actually, I just want you to make money. And of course I'm saying true to myself, like I'm not a different person, but it allowed me to really focus in and [00:10:00] it's been business changing.
Kirsten: Okay. So for those who aren't familiar with content marketing and having these three different levels of content, you and I wrote a mastermind recently. And I loved one of the girls there was like, keep talking about Top of Funnel. Where did we get to the other parts of the funnel? And just, which I thought was so funny.
So for anybody listening who's not familiar, we talk about so many different things on the show, but you explained it very well. We're talking about those different levels where somebody comes in, and I love that you broke it down even on the platform, how you can be specific with that. It's not that you're only focusing on virality, but we know virality has a play, and it has a part in the whole entire structure.
Because if your only goal is just to create viral content, then you're going to have a whole bunch of people looking at things, but you're not going to see any sales. Let's just break that down and what that looks like in content and really make sure everybody understands those three different levels.
To content in general, and then it's specifically applied to Instagram.
Michelle: Perfect. When you are, you're in a relationship with a follower and also with a customer. That's a relationship. They're giving you money. There's some trust, there's some obligation [00:11:00] involved. And so you have to think about it. Like when you walk up to someone, a stranger, like you don't automatically be like, sit down, I want to tell you all of my problems and you're, I'm going to act like you're my therapist.
I'm going to just share it with every you. And that's the same thing with our followers. When they start, when they come in into us and get to know us, they first find us. They're at that top of funnel. They're at that attraction phase where they're like attracted into us and they're trying to figure out, is this person for me?
This, can this person solve my problem? So then they're attracted and there needs to be content that's whole job is to attract new people into your account. Because if you don't have that, then you're stagnant and you're not growing. And you're only talking to the same audience that you've always talked to.
But we actually want to grow that following, right? We want to grow it because it gives us more opportunity to serve. It gives us more opportunities to sell our products. So we need to create content that's whole job is to attract people in. And then we create content that takes a step further down in the [00:12:00] funnel is to nurture that audience.
We want to build trust. We want to build authority. And we, when we go to sell something, we want it to be like, Oh yes, I've, I'm already, I've already had conversations with Michelle. I've already. Trusted her, I've already tried one of her tips and it's worked. And then when I go to sell, which is the bottom of the funnel, then it's an easier yes, because they've been nurtured.
They have a relationship with me and it's not like a stranger just walking up and saying, buy my stuff. Cause then people don't say yes to that. And so we have, so if you think of it looking like a funnel, right? Attract is at the top and it's. There's more, right? It's a bigger area. And then you have the nurture, it's down.
And then you have sell, because you can attract a million people in, but not all of those people are gonna buy, and it just funnels itself down. So that's a, that's the basics. Okay.
Kirsten: So can we get into, I know everybody listening is coming from a variety of different business models. Before I even ask this question, do you feel like Instagram is for everybody?
Do you feel like anybody can use Instagram to their [00:13:00] benefit as a business owner?
Michelle: Yeah, I do. Okay. I do. I 100 percent think so. I know that it's not everyone's strategy, but I also think there are a lot of people maybe listening who have discounted Instagram because they've never thought of it strategically.
They're only using it as a social platform and then they post content without a strategy. Or without thinking about how do I create content for this platform? And then they blame Instagram. They blame the algorithm and say, this doesn't work for me. And you haven't tried to create content for the platform that you're trying to grow on.
And so that's fine. If you don't want to do that's okay. Cause we can't all be on every platform, but there's definitely a space for any business on it. Okay. So now that we've got that out of the way,
Kirsten: no excuses. When we look at the attract content, how can we break this down even further so that people understand.
What that looks like and what you need to consider to make sure that it's fitting within that. And what are some different types of attraction content that are going to draw in those masses?
Michelle: Yeah. So one thing I think about [00:14:00] is what is a really quick, a quick win that someone would share with a friend with my content.
So I, Instagram just came out a couple of weeks ago and said that one of the biggest things that they're analyzing with the algorithm that is going to push your content more out is shares. Yeah. Because the Instagram loves you sharing with your friends and family. And they know that content that gets shared is probably really valuable.
I think about what content's getting shared and what are people saving and sharing in my niche. So one thing that you can do is go and, um, find someone that is speaking to your audience. Now, it doesn't have to be like specifically your niche. But I want you to go and find their pop off content, the content that is doing extremely better than any of their other content.
Most accounts have it, um, if they're thinking about it. And then I want you to analyze, like, what was good about that? Was it something funny? Was it something that was a quote? Was it something that was a [00:15:00] quick hack that really helped people? So for example, one of my students. She is, she does, she does cleaning tips and she was stuck at 60, 000 and it's because she was like just talking to her audience and it was just her audience.
And then she realized if she created these really short cleaning tips, not a lot of cleaning tips, not like a compilation of how do I clean my bathroom, but like, how do I get the soap scum, soap scum off my shower? Like really quick cleaning tips. Her account exploded. Now she's at 120, 000. It's been four months.
And it's because she's thinking about how do I create bite sized content that's highly savable and shareable. And that's a really great tip with especially attraction is we don't want to share the whole, we don't have to do the whole strategy, right? That is too much for people and people don't stick around that long.
So how can you find short content that solves a very specific problem for someone That they would save and share.
Kirsten: Okay. That's a really good [00:16:00] tip and something you can absolutely do very easily just by going and looking, not so you can necessarily completely copy the content, but even the psychology behind the content.
What are people within your niche? And I feel like you could even do this outside of your niche, right? Like how can, it might require a little more brainpower to see the parallel on how you can apply it. Just that something that simple of making it smaller. And I was going to ask you too, this is a weakness that I have in content that I Try to be very aware of is we're so worried that this might be the only video somebody sees like we're trying to cram too much into it or we're trying to have our whole brand and our whole message in one content piece.
So how do you with your clients and even with yourself, how did you get to a point where you're able to find those tiny little elements that are going to bring value and connection and trust without worrying about it being everything that you do and everything that you know?
Michelle: Well, if I went on a first date and I suddenly was like, listen, let me tell you about my family.
We've got some issues that I want to talk about that they would like what in the world like I'm [00:17:00] out of here. I just wanted to know what you wanted for dinner. Yeah. And so like with a first meeting with a follower, like we actually don't need all that. The only thing our follower or potential follower needs to know is will Michelle solve a problem for me?
Not all my problems. No, thank you. I don't want all the problems, but will Michelle solve a very specific problem for me? Yeah, and so to know that there we also have to understand how Instagram works and this is this thank you tik tok for this But Instagram is actually easier to grow now than it was years before, because Instagram is, is putting our content in front of people who don't follow us.
That's not how it was very long ago. The algorithm is actually helping us. And so we have to understand that when we create content, that it has to be like people create content on TikTok. We create content on TikTok for people who don't follow us yet. Because the for you page, that's what the for you page is.
And that's what people are scrolling. And we let the [00:18:00] algorithm decide what we want to watch. And so we have to understand that it's not quite as much as it is on Instagram, but that is absolutely what's happening. And so our content has to be like encapsulated, right? It needs to be something that can be consumed.
In that 10 seconds. And then you don't need much more context, just like, here's a problem you have and I can solve it. You should follow me. And so just to let go of some of your pressure of, I have to create the best content, it has to speak to about my soul. It has to like, tell this person everything about me and my business and just say, no, I was actually, my attraction content just needs to solve a problem.
Kirsten: Okay. And with that, does it always, are there accounts where this is not the case where it has to solve a problem? Are there other types of. Attraction content, even for entertainment purposes. If I, maybe I'm more into affiliate marketing and I'm not necessarily selling my own thing to where I want to be the expert, but I just want to generate a community.
Would that, how would that look? Would that still be, you want to find a problem that you solve within that entertainment [00:19:00] or is it like, are there other approaches to it?
Michelle: Yeah. So I think, and maybe we just need to clarify like a problem, right? There's a lot of problems we solve. Sometimes I just want to laugh.
Thank you. Will someone do that? Sometimes I want to feel connected. So you know that there are a lot of, like a lot of reels or little memes that are like, they just hit very specifically on a specific audience, specific community that they will get and no one else will think is funny. That's a hundred percent attraction content because people are going to share that.
People are going to laugh because you're going to think that they're like, Oh my gosh, this girl gets me. And then they're like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to send this to my sister. Cause she'll think it's so funny too. And so that is a hundred percent attraction content. So when I say solving a problem, I guess what I'm saying is like, how do we show up and help our person?
Right? Sometimes it is through a quick hack and sometimes it is through a meme that connects. Sometimes it's some of my. Content that does really well are some quotes, right? Some quotes that are like highly shareable. [00:20:00] So you just have to, so yes, it's not just like hack videos that are going to work. And you have to think about what your niche is and like, what, what does my audience want and what would be fun.
And I test different things all the time. So what worked this year didn't work last year and you just have to keep adjusting, but just to always think every piece of content has a different job. So if I want to attract more people in, like, how do I make this something that if someone out in the world who doesn't know Michelle found, what would they take from this?
And would they save and share this?
Kirsten: I know, and I've seen you talk about that a lot, and I think this is a really important question to ask of, but what's in it for me, or if you might feel excited about what you're creating because you just had this really profound experience, or you believe in it so much, and maybe that even fits more within the Nurture content as we get a little more deep into what you're offering, but then look at it and judge it.
Don't you even have a specific phrase or framework with looking at things and making sure there's actually some kind of value for other people?
Michelle: I just like, if someone, if I look at my content and [00:21:00] I'm like, if no one will save it or share it. Then I probably need to rethink it because I think we get really stuck and being selfish content creators Like people are so mad that they have to like it's so funny I was reading Adam Asari who's the head of Instagram and he just did he will do updates every once in a while and this one Commenter was like I just want to share And encourage people to travel with their kids.
And I was like, interested in that. So I went to his Instagram and I was like, his content was so selfish. Like, it was like just recording his life. I'm like, this is a beautiful home movie, but I don't care. I love, I'm sure I would care about him personally if I knew him, but he's not creating for me. He's creating for himself.
And if that's the case, that's fine. That is a great journal to, but, but you can't get mad at the algorithm because you have done nothing to think about the audience and what would they actually consume. Cause I watched 10 seconds and I was bored because I don't have that [00:22:00] personal connection with his kids.
And so he's got to do the work for me. It is our job as content creators to be, to make our content really easy to consume. That's our job.
Kirsten: I want to ask you, I'm curious, because I've wondered about this as I've gone to create content. There's a lot of bad habits that are stuck, where we've seen how Instagram was used before, it was very aspirational.
Is there room, and sometimes actually aspirational now gets a bad rap, where it's like, we're tired of hearing your income claims and all of those types of things, as we get more into the business niche, but Even with content in general, I've wondered personally, how do I show that I am an expert without just giving like three tips to blah, blah, blah, and show that I'm walking the walk and talking the talk without it just feeling like that, where it's Great for you.
I'm happy that you're so successful while still like, how do we build the trust and show what were they're trying to aspire to become? Is there still room for that in
Michelle: Instagram? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's in how you tell your story. Now, I would caution that if 90 percent of your content is I made 10, 000 in four days, [00:23:00] get my free product, then no one's going to listen to that anymore because we have a very sensitive BS button and we're done.
Like, we don't like, that's not, you don't care about me. You just want to tell me about your story. Yeah. But if you can, that, and that's why I think the attract, nurture, sell part is so big is because it's not just about attracting people in, but we need them to buy into our story and to understand who we are.
And so that's more where you can nurture your audience. And I think there is a hundred percent, if you can tell your story in a story form with your content, that is huge. And also when you're like, Hey, this is the actual transformation. Or if you're like, These are the thoughts I thought before I became a millionaire.
And this is how I think now, or these are the, the, the hangups that I had. So I think that if we can obviously always share our story. But we have to think about, am I just making these money claims all the time?
Kirsten: Yeah.
Michelle: And it's like, cool, great for you, but [00:24:00] like, you're not the expert. It just feels like you spun the wheel and it happened.
But if you can say it, like three things I learned from losing a million dollars, that's interesting. Cause I'm like, okay, you made a million dollars. And then what happened? I'm curious. And that's a big piece is how do you add curiosity to your content so that people care, right? Cause of like, Ooh, there's some juice in there.
I want to see that. And so then you can start sharing your story. Then it's okay. So in 2020, I invested a million dollars in an app and I did all the marketing and making this up. I don't know, but you could tell your story and you're like, I invested 500, 000 in making the app over the year. And then I invested time in marketing, whatever.
And then, and then I realized that no one was buying it because I was all, I was like focusing on the production. And so, maybe you need to test out your product before you spend a million dollars. Okay, that was a grand story. Example. I don't know, but I'm like,
Kirsten: this is without the details involved [00:25:00] with that regard, but that click or sorry, that title would totally click and it would work for me because I've thought about that and writing a book about that.
And having that be a really fundamental part of my story. You, we've talked about how do we spend this PR on this crazy thing that happened to me. But I'm like jotting that down. That's a really great hook. Thanks, Michelle. I'm gonna use
Michelle: that but yes But if you're like like I went from a this thousand months month to this month and like what I did wrong Or what happened or what I would change or whatever, then you're inviting and you might think that's embarrassing.
Like, I don't want to share that, but you, it is such a connecting point. And it's also like, people are curious and they're like, Oh my gosh, she's done this. And now, cause you can tell the whole story. Cause you got this carousel that you're sliding through, right? You can tell more. Or if you're doing a reel, but, and it helps you, it helps you have the ability to tell the story.
But if you just go out and tell the story and you're like, so this one day, this happened and this happened, no one's listening except your friend. Right? But if you can [00:26:00] add a hook that builds curiosity, brings me in, then I'm like, oof, I'm all in. Tell me point A to point Z exactly what happened. And I will scroll through that all day.
It's really saying to yourself, okay, I have these stories and we all have these stories. We all have these experiences. That we've had some sort of transformation. Some of those transformations have been positive. Right? I went from 18,000 to 236,000 in 18 months. Yeah. Guess that's clickable. It could be hard things where it's I had to fire someone and what I do differently now.
Yeah, we have all those things. People are not, I think we live in, we've all lived on social media long enough to know that everyone are real people. Like no one, I don't have any sense that anyone's perfect on Instagram because that's ridiculous. And I think we're all like, okay with that, right? We all have laundry.
We all have dishes to be done. We have kids to that are outside my door sending me notes under my door during a podcast, right? All these things are happening. Thank you, COVID. Right? Like we were all like, we're all at home, we're all doing the thing. [00:27:00] And so I don't think we have to hide behind that. In fact, it can be some of our biggest connecting point.
Yeah.
Kirsten: Okay. So we've kind of stepped into this nurture content and the things we've been talking about would really fit in that category. And you even mentioned something that I want to see if you want to go into more depth with it. comparing the format of the content. I know you've said, and this is, what, where are we at, July 2024?
This could change in July 2025. But for now, you're seeing carousels are a great nurture piece compared to reels, which might be more of the attraction. Are we seeing carousels have virality as well, though, with like being shown To an audience that doesn't follow you. Okay.
Michelle: So I, some of my carousels get seen and it's mostly like explore page stuff.
So the thing that you just have to think about is the Reels algorithm is completely different than my feed algorithm, like for carousels or just regular posts. Reels algorithm is specifically designed to be put in front of people who don't follow you yet. And there is that added element. But Instagram recently has been putting other content in people's [00:28:00] feed.
What I noticed is that. It took longer for a carousel post to go viral than for me to get a reel to go viral. So there is a hundred percent a place for carousels. And I have some carousels that have brought me thousands of followers. So we still implement, we still do them and we love them. Like they're a big part of my strategy.
And, but in general, like if you're just looking at content and how Instagram works, shorter reels are easier to go viral because people can watch them. You have to be a really good content creator that like keeps people for 30 seconds, right? Like you have to understand that your job is to keep people's attention.
And not everyone is there yet. So shorter reels are easier to go viral just cause they're easier to make and their reels and the algorithm is specifically designed to put your content in front of more people. And that does not mean that carousels can't go viral and have not worked because they totally do.
And I love them with my.
Kirsten: Well, you can do so [00:29:00] much, like it's cool how both formats are going to serve the same purpose or similar purposes because. I do, I see a lot more posts and I think even that comes down to the virality of them being shared by the people who already follow you more so than necessarily Instagram.
They will then put it in front of people when they've seen, Oh, there are people see value in this, which is similar to how the TikTok feed works. So I had a question about this as well. And I know that we have a lot of ego involved and I know I'm transitioning where I'm like, this, there's content is so different over on TikTok compared to Instagram compared to some of these other places.
So repurposing, I just want a tangent over here. We can repurpose the concept and use that to really grow on multiple platforms. And I don't want to stray into talking about all the other platforms, but I think that is something important to be aware of and knowing that each platform has its place and they have their own strategy.
And Instagram is different. And if you're trying to recreate and just repost TikToks over on Instagram, you're not going to see the same, not always the same level of success, unless you're following the same, like, short form, really short form. Because TikTok has its own growth [00:30:00] trajectory of how they're trying to pay attention to how their consumers are behaving on the platform, and same with Instagram.
So do you think it's not necessarily a limitation, but just pay attention to audience behavior and interaction to understand how to even approach your content strategy?
Michelle: Yeah, so it's easier to go from TikTok to Instagram. Like, if you're repurposing, it seems like it translates better from TikTok to Instagram.
Instagram to TikTok doesn't really translate that well. And so you can take the same concept, a hundred percent. But you just have to present it a little bit differently on Tik TOK, something cool that just happened with Pinterest. I love Pinterest, is that you can now connect your Pinterest account to Instagram.
So it'll auto populate your content onto Pinterest and then you can repin it where you need to go. So you don't have to like download stuff and then upload it to Pinterest. So it's taking out a step and short form is doing, short form video is doing well everywhere because, not because Instagram doesn't like pictures, it's because people like videos.
Yeah. That's why it, [00:31:00] there's no master plan to get everyone watching videos. It's just what people like to do. And, but to just recognize that each platform has a strength and then to decide, like, how much energy do I have? Do I have to be everywhere? No, you don't. You a hundred percent don't have to be everywhere.
I would choose a social media platform and then for sure do an email list. There's some other stuff I would add, but those two things are where I'd start. The foundations.
Kirsten: Okay, so let's talk more about nurture content. I know we've touched on it a little bit as we've addressed different strategies that we've just been talking about with creating that connection and sharing your story in a more relatable way, providing value.
Do you have anything else to add when it comes to connection? And I even want to know, as you strategize and as you teach this to your clients and your students, Are you literally creating buckets where you're just saying this content over here is literally just to bring people in over here. We're going to evaluate this content differently.
We're not looking for it to go viral. We're not looking for it. Maybe it will, but that's not really how we're measuring success on our attraction content. And then obviously, same with [00:32:00] sale content.
Michelle: Yeah, so yes. And what this does is like we, if there are oftentimes some spillover, right, sometimes they create a nurtured piece of content and it actually goes viral.
And sometimes. I have a reel and it does really well nurturing and I do nurture reels. Those are my talking head videos. You can do reels to nurture as well. You can do whatever content you want to, you like to create. And so there, there is some spillover, but just think of the freedom. Like if we're looking at every piece of content and we want every type of content to go viral, and then we're mad that it doesn't.
That's not fair, right? That's not fair to that carousel. That carousel's job wasn't to go viral. It was to nurture and get people ready to buy and to set you up as the expert. And so it, it just gives us more intention and it gives us to know what lever to pull. So if I'm like, okay, you know what, my growth is going down.
I need to start thinking about, okay, I need some attraction content. Or if you're like, oh, I am getting ready to launch a product, then I'm going to [00:33:00] nurture my audience a little bit more. And then when I'm launching a product, I'm going to go heavier on selling. So it allows you to, and again, not every post performs the way that you're going to, that you think it's going to do, but at least I can go in with some intention and, and then when I'm looking at analytics, I'm not, it's not like I'm comparing these apples to oranges.
I'm like, Oh, okay. So my nurture pieces did I got this many saves and shares on my nurture pieces and my attraction content could have done better or whatever it is, but I, at least I'm thinking about it in a way that's productive instead of a lot of shame and guilt because something didn't perform the way we thought it would.
Kirsten: So you mentioned how you're measuring a little bit with shares and saves and things like that, and I know sales might seem obvious, but when we get into that sales content, do you have a way of tracking particularly the pieces that you are driving a sale to of knowing if that piece of content actually converted?
Like, how are you able to take from platform that you don't own to, I know we have email list, but But how do we track from that post specifically to a [00:34:00] purchase?
Michelle: So what I'm using many chat, and that's the easiest way to do that because it sets up specific automations and you can actually track that.
Right. So many chat is a DM automation service. And so if you comment hooks on any of my content, you're going to get a DM with a hook guide and it's going to give you 131 hooks, right? So I can actually track that it's hard to track from Instagram straight to purchase without that kind of piece in between.
So, so I recommend, and it's also great because you can build your email list and it also is fantastic for engagement to use an automation system like ManyChat. So when you do ManyChat, then you can track it better. Okay.
Kirsten: Love that. I figured. That might be what you'd say. And I'm curious, cause I'm a nerd when it comes to data collection.
Been at this for so long, the game is no longer, Ooh, let's keep, I know you're always testing, but it's not the spaghetti at the wall. You know what you're doing. There's very much intention behind what you're doing. Do you guys take the time to go and look so that you can look at the content you've created?
So you can improve upon it. Are you [00:35:00] looking at the conversion and looking at the posts you can duplicate more of to see those sales? And right now, is it just running like a machine? You're like, I know what's going to work. We're going to keep playing the game.
Michelle: It used to be running like a machine. There was a, there was an algorithm update that about a month and a half ago.
And they decided that they were going, the Instagram said that bigger accounts, they were going to get less initial reach. And we saw like that drastically happened, especially with our clients that had bigger accounts. So they were like, Hey, we want smaller accounts to get, to be able to grow faster. And so we've seen a significant shift in accounts reached, which hasn't happened in a month, in a year and a half.
Like it was drastic. And so now we're testing new things and we're trying new thing, but I am a hundred percent looking at which content is performing best for these different things. And then I always, there are a few posts that I know will always do well and I put repost them about every three months and it's great people like it.
So I, I've interviewed Sharon McMahon. Sharon says so. And one of the [00:36:00] things she always says is once on the, on Instagram. On the internet is never. And so if you think that you can't repeat what you said, you're wrong. Like you actually have to, or people will never listen and they don't understand because you just have to keep saying whatever you're saying.
So we are definitely looking and especially like we are definitely looking at posts, individual posts. One thing to note when you're looking at your analytics is that each, it takes Instagram longer for your posts. I'll say it this way. Your Instagram posts has a longer lifespan than it ever has. And so it will take up to two weeks for your Instagram content to take off.
Sometimes three, sometimes four. And so just knowing that if I'm analyzing after a day or three days or even a week, I haven't given that post enough time to get where it's going to go.
Kirsten: Okay. It's sad news for the big accounts, but great news if you're listening and you want to grow, but I love that you're still looking at it and what can we control?
What can we continue to strategize and analyze? And even when you're analyzing, it [00:37:00] might look totally different than it did. Two months ago, but you still based on what is happening with what you can control. You can still measure that and be really intentional about what you're putting out to still see results and conversions and those kinds of things.
Can we talk a little bit more about sales content? We talked about how you track them and how the overall strategy of seeing their converting. But I have a tendency, as you know me, there's nothing off the table. I feel like it's hard to show up. I love both ends of the spectrum. I love just talking about stuff and entertaining and talking about my feelings and making it very precious.
And then I also know how to sell. And I feel like sometimes people tend to have strengths in one or the other and they just show up when it's time to sell something. But even within sales content, if you haven't done the nurturing, you haven't built the community, the audience sale, selling is going to fall flat.
So I want you to speak on that. And then even in terms of do you have a specific strategy for your sales content that you've seen works better to see those conversions than just, I'm launching, come by the thing.
Michelle: Yeah, for sure. So usually [00:38:00] I spend most of my feed content. Are not hard sales, so it's usually like a value add and then you can comment society and I'll send you a link to my Insta social society.
So I use, I rarely do, except for a launch when I need like a graphic that people can just like directly share to their, to their stories or whatever. And I'm also not a product based business. I am an information based business. So I do launch it. I may have a product that they can buy anytime. So a lot of my content in my feed.
It's transitional sales content, like here, I'm going to give you this freebie and then you're going to get on my email list and then I'm going to give you, then you're going to get the product. I do a lot more selling in my stories and stories are the most valuable place on the internet. I will go out and say that because.
No other platform has been able to duplicate the value of stories and the closeness and the community that you can build with stories. Like no other platform has been able to duplicate it. They've tried. But TikTok is a very [00:39:00] attraction content platform, right? We're just trying to get eyeballs on us. But if you want a community and you want to create relationship, people come to Instagram because you can show up.
You can see me make dinner. You can hang out with my kids, whatever I decide to share in my stories. And stories is a much better place to sell. And so. Most of my cell content, I will do in stories and then I have a little bit more freedom to be like, tell the story behind it and to be like, this is a transformation.
Look at what happened to this account when they started taking Grow the Gram and now they're here. And now that I can't do that in my feed, I absolutely will talk about the transformation, but in your feed, and always when you're selling, you have to think about how can I create a hook that they will actually consume.
I think a lot of people with sell content in their feed, they're like, here's this product, buy it. And we, and that doesn't work, right? That never, that doesn't work with us. So you have to tell, talk to me about. What is the problem that solves and show me a transformation. Show me like what happened. How did you do get to this A to point B or you have to make me [00:40:00] curious.
Show me why I care.
Kirsten: What would you say when you're planning content you use to, is there a line of delineation between, I think we've covered attraction versus nurture and you're going to see some bleed over. How do we know it's a piece of sales content? Is it like I'm looking at this and the call to action is a little bit different.
We're specifically getting them to. A freebie as whereas with the attraction content, your call to action might be a little bit different follow along or things like that. Is that how you can tell the difference sometimes or what else
Michelle: would you consider to be? I would say that my attraction content is almost always sending people to a freebie.
Almost always. And that's because I'm in an educational based thing. Right. But a lot of my attraction content is like, Hey, here's 13 hooks. If you want 131 comment hooks and I'll give it to you, but they could just save and share, you could, they could just save that piece of content and have two weeks worth of content hooks.
But his sell to me is your next step is purchasing. Like I want you to buy.
Kirsten: Yeah.
Michelle: And so that's where my sales content comes in that the Dylan delineation. What a good word [00:41:00] for me is that. It's like my, the next step is selling.
Kirsten: Now, do you have a ratio of we should do 70 percent attraction, 30, 20 percent nurture and 10 percent sales?
Do you split it up that way? Or is it just more of a content calendar
Michelle: type of a
Kirsten: thing?
Michelle: So I would say it depends on what your goals are for that month or whatever. But if you're trying to grow on Instagram, just a really good starting point is my three, two, one method. Okay. So three attract, two nurture, one sell.
That's 50 percent attraction, 30 percent nurture, 20 percent self. So then I'm hitting all the notes every, all day, right? So if you say, I'm going to post six days, six days a week, one post six days a week, then you can do three attract, two nurture, one sell. It's a good starting point. I'm not saying that's right for everyone, but I think that we talk so many, like, just, we don't ever give specifics.
But this way, if you start with that, then you can adjust as needed. But if you're trying to grow, then 3, 2, 1 is good. If you're trying to get ready to sell something, then I [00:42:00] would do 2, 3, 1, which would be to attract, 3, nurture, 1, sell. So it just changes as your goal changes with how you're using Instagram.
Well, oh my gosh, we could talk.
Kirsten: For such a long time about Instagram, which is this is I think why people get overwhelmed though. Look at how much we've been able to cover just in 45 minutes of the strategy, which can feel overwhelming or you can look at this as, oh, it's predictable. It's something I can actually build a intention around and I can see success and see sales in my business and build a community, build an audience.
What is, you've stepped on your soapbox. We have some strong beliefs about Instagram, right? But what is the, I know you're very passionate about this and I love your conviction when we have conversations. But I just want to know if there's any final thoughts of like, when you sit down with a client, when people are DMing you, the thing that you're just like, please just understand this.
What is that? What is that thing? So I want
Michelle: to share a couple of things. I'm so sorry. You knew that was true. Okay, so one of the things I for sure want you to understand is that we need you. We need your voice. We need your message. And we need you to just try. [00:43:00] I was on Instagram for probably forever. I don't know, but I feel like five years we'll say.
That took, and it took me five years to get to 18, 000. And then it took me a year and a half to, to get where I am now. Growth isn't linear and you have to start. Now, one of the things that completely changed is that I decided to change. I narrowed, I like, I focused on getting better at content creation and that was the path, right?
That's a journey that you have to get on. So number one thing is we need you. We need your voice. And the number two thing is you just got to start because you're probably not good at content creation right now. Neither was I, when I first started like at all, but you get better. And the more you create, the better you get.
And the more, you know, your audience, and then you realize that my whole job is just to help people. Now, my, the thing I'm helping people with is Instagram. It's so fun for me. Maybe you're helping people do something completely different, right? Like you're helping people with podcasts, or you're helping people learn what makeup to use, or you're helping people have better skin, or you're having Whatever, but that's actually fun.
Like it's something that you actually love. So if you start [00:44:00] looking at Instagram as a tool in which you can start helping people with makeup With the stuff you actually love it makes it easier and less stressful and it's also maybe I don't know fun Shocking. I can't even imagine. I
Kirsten: think things can be fun when we remove the mystery from it, right?
And I think most of the time with things that scare us We want to separate ourselves from them and it feels out of control and then when you are able to have conversations like this Listen to episodes like this follow Michelle learn from her then it the scare tactic comes out of it because it's not a mystery It's oh, I just know what I need to do so now the conversation becomes Are you going to do it?
Are you going to do what you just said and just start? Because there's no way around it. You just have to do it. You have to get better. You have to show up and share. And I think that is where we have to know our why. We have to know the intention behind what we're doing. And you'll keep showing up just like you did for years and years because you were so passionate about what was driving you.
Your mission forward and you were willing to figure out something that felt unfigureoutable so that you could do what you knew you were put here to do so I love you. I just love everything you've shared. It's [00:45:00] so valuable. I'm so excited for you to listen and probably re listen to this. So where can they find you?
What do they need to know? Next steps from Michelle?
Michelle: First of all, come find me on Instagram. I'm really fun. I'm going to teach you a lot of stuff. Okay? And that's, I am Michelle Gifford. And if you come to my Instagram account and DM or even comment on any of my posts, millionaire, just, that's all you have to do.
Just DM me millionaire. I'm going to send you an Instagram audit checklist. So what this is going to do is you're going to be able to go to your Instagram account and see what changes you need to make in order to take that next step. Going to be awesome. It's, and it's easy to do. So go to Instagram, find me DM millionaire, and I'll send it to you.
Kirsten: I'm so glad that's what you're giving, because that was a question I actually forgot to ask earlier. I had all these things I was like, I need to write down notes. Because I think that's an important, powerful thing people do need to do, is audit. Do a self audit, and then come to you for further auditing.
If you'll even take the time to do that, which I, my husband and I have sat down and been brutally honest with my content. That will tell you so much. [00:46:00] View it from the lens of somebody who might want to follow you or does follow you. If you can be honest with yourself, you can grow so much just from that awareness.
So I love that you have a checklist to help us do that.
Michelle: Yeah, you're gonna, it's gonna help you a lot because you're gonna be able to see the holes or the things that you need to change. And everyone likes to check things off. It's so great.
Kirsten: Yeah. Amen. Well, thanks again, Michelle. For all of the genius wisdom you've shared, it's been so fun to hear from you.
Thanks, Kirsten. I don't know about you guys, but I feel so much less overwhelmed about how I can use Instagram and how it can fit into my overall strategy for promoting my business and helping me reach the right people. It used to feel like such a popularity contest, and now seeing that there's something I can actually do to plan ahead and succeed on this platform makes it a whole lot more fun.
Thank you so much to our show sponsors for today's episode, for Michelle for bringing so much value and helping us to see Instagram through a different lens. If you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to check out all of the resources that Michelle mentioned, and then also go check out our free training on how you can start building your own business in our show notes or at [00:47:00] millionaireuniversity.
com forward slash training. Thanks again for tuning in. You guys class is officially dismissed.
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