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Ever dream of ditching your desk job? The trades industry presents unparalleled opportunities for aspiring entrepreneurs — especially today! Not only is there an evergreen need for housing and infrastructure, but retiring baby boomers have created a particularly high demand for professionals skilled in plumbing, HVAC, electrical work, and more. No matter your concentration, this transformative period offers the potential for a lucrative and fulfilling career path in construction and the trades.
Mark Williams, a seasoned custom home builder with over 20 years of experience and the host of the Curious Builder Podcast, exemplifies what it takes to succeed in this industry. His journey from a high school lawn mowing business to leading Mark D. Williams Custom Homes in Minnesota provides a wealth of insights into building a thriving business in the trades. Ready to explore the exciting possibilities and finally take the leap? Let’s dive in!
Recognize the Growing Demand
"For every seven plumbers that retire, only one journeyman is taking their place."
Imagine stepping into an industry where your skills are in such high demand that opportunities practically find you. That’s the reality in the trades today. With retiring baby boomers and fewer young people entering the industry, this gap is creating an entrepreneurial goldmine for those eager to fill it. Beyond job security, the trades offer an unparalleled chance to build financial independence and even create a legacy.
Trades like plumbing, HVAC, and electrical work are essential services, making them recession-resistant. These careers are not only stable but also ripe with opportunities for growth and innovation.
If you're just entering the industry, Mark makes these suggestions:
Research local market demands for specific trades (e.g., plumbing, HVAC, or electrical work).
Consider starting with an apprenticeship or trade school to learn the necessary skills.
Build relationships with seasoned tradespeople to understand the industry’s nuances.
Learn Business Fundamentals Early
"You can be a good builder and bad at business and you won’t make it. You could be a bad builder and good at business and you would make it."
Running a successful trades business is about more than just mastering your craft — it’s about running a smart, efficient operation. Financial management, customer relationships, and operational strategies are just as critical as swinging a hammer or wiring a circuit.
Mark’s own experience underscores this point. By misunderstanding basic financial principles like the difference between margin and markup, he left significant money on the table early in his career. These lessons, though hard-earned, can be avoided with the right knowledge and tools.
Mark suggests being proactive:
Take courses on business fundamentals such as accounting, marketing, and operations.
Use industry-specific software like Buildertrend to streamline project management and communication.
Regularly review your business processes to identify areas for improvement.
Prioritize Communication
"Clear is kind."
Great communication can set you apart in any industry, but it’s especially vital in the trades. Whether you’re working with clients, subcontractors, or your team, being proactive and clear builds trust and ensures smooth operations.
Mark’s approach to communication includes consistent updates and transparency, which clients and team members alike appreciate. Regular check-ins and detailed progress reports can make all the difference in creating a positive experience.
Consider these ideas:
Establish a regular communication schedule with clients, such as biweekly updates.
Train your team to prioritize transparency and responsiveness.
Use tools like email templates and project management software to ensure consistent messaging.
Start Small, but Think Big
"Just start somewhere. Run a half mile, walk a half mile, whatever it takes. Then with that reputation, that building block, you'll get to your goal."
Every business begins with a single step, and the trades are no exception. Whether you start by fixing fences, mowing lawns, or apprenticing under a seasoned pro, every small project builds the foundation for your future success.
Mark’s journey from running a lawn-mowing business in high school to leading a successful custom home-building company proves that big dreams often begin with humble steps. By staying curious and consistently taking action, you can transform even the smallest opportunities into significant achievements.
Establish momentum with these steps:
Begin with smaller projects to build your portfolio and gain credibility.
Leverage your early experiences to identify your niche or area of expertise.
Stay open to learning from every project, no matter how small.
Consider Acquiring an Existing Business
"If I could do a do-over in 2024, I would go work for a 60-year-old HVAC company."
Why reinvent the wheel when you can hit the ground running? Acquiring an established trades business is one of the smartest ways to step into entrepreneurship. Many seasoned professionals are looking for successors, making this a win-win opportunity for both parties.
By working with the existing owner, you can learn the ins and outs of the business while building relationships with its established client base. Mark emphasizes that this approach can fast-track your success while minimizing risks.
To acquire an established trades business:
Approach local business owners nearing retirement to discuss potential succession plans.
Work within the business to learn operations before transitioning to ownership.
Partner with financial advisors or lawyers to structure a buyout agreement.
Invest in Continuous Education and Community
"If you aren’t willing to spend $1,000 a year on your education, you just don’t get it."
The trades are always evolving, and staying ahead means continuously investing in yourself. Whether it’s learning the latest techniques, adopting new technology, or networking with peers, growth never stops.
Mark’s own initiative, the Curious Builder Collective, exemplifies how a community can amplify your success. Surrounding yourself with other motivated professionals creates a support system that fosters both personal and professional growth.
Make your education a priority:
Join local or national trade organizations to network and share knowledge.
Attend industry workshops, conferences, or training programs.
Consider forming or joining a peer group like the Curious Builder Collective to exchange ideas and solutions.
Balance Passion with Practicality
"Passion and willpower, throw in some communication, and I think you’ve got a potent cocktail for success."
Passion fuels your journey, but practicality ensures your success. Mark’s story is a testament to balancing a love for building with disciplined business practices. By setting boundaries and investing in personal wellness, you can sustain your drive and avoid burnout.
Whether it’s taking time to recharge in nature or implementing systems to streamline operations, finding balance is key to thriving as an entrepreneur.
Here’s how you can do the same:
Reflect regularly on your goals to align them with your daily operations.
Implement systems that allow you to scale without sacrificing quality.
Take breaks and invest in personal wellness to avoid burnout.
Final Thoughts: Seize the Opportunity
The trades industry isn’t just a career path — it’s an exciting gateway to entrepreneurship, innovation, and making a lasting impact. The demand is there, the tools are available, and the potential for success is limitless!
…Class Dismissed!
By following these actionable steps and learning from industry leaders, you can build a business that stands the test of time.
Want to hear the full interview with Mark? Click here!
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Transcript
Mark: [00:00:00] There's a lot of benefit to knowing where you're going and then that's your goal and you go there, but there's also a lot of benefit of not knowing and just having a lot of willpower. Just be like, I'm going to do this.
Brien: Welcome to the Millionaire University podcast. I'm your host, Brian Giran, back in the saddle with you today and on this edition of the MU pod, I'm joined by Mr. Mark Williams. He's the owner of Mark D. Williams Custom Homes in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It's custom home building and remodeling company serving the Twin Cities area.
Uh, And besides building incredible homes for the past 18 years now, Mark is also the host of the Curious Builder podcast, and he is a staunch advocate of the trades and the tradespeople who bring everything to life via their quality craftsmanship. Mark, I could keep going, but I guess I better let you get in some words here too.
So welcome to the show, my friend. It's a pleasure to have you.
Mark: Thanks podcast hosts. It'll be interesting to see which one of us can ask a question and stop and which one can actually listen. [00:01:00] I started the podcast two years ago and my wife, her first question was, you know, you have to listen to people, right?
And I thought that was a funny response because I'm a bit of an extrovert talker, but now I'm on the other side. I'm being interviewed. So now I can throw the listening ears away and just let it fly.
Brien: Let it fly. That's right. And we're going to, I'm sure we'll find a couple of rabbit holes we can dive down in as well.
So I'll do my best as a host to make sure we go in, but find our way back out. But I think that's where all the gold is turned up from anyway. So Well, Mark, today we want to learn all about your business. We want to know how you started, what's the origin story to the present day to the future plans of your custom home building business.
But also I'm really excited to chat with you because we're going to talk about starting a business in the trades and what that looks like in 2024. And now, as we head towards 2025, you work with a lot. Of trades businesses, a lot of people who are your classic main street type of business and in terms of those who help you actually build the custom homes that you design.
So I know you have your finger on [00:02:00] the pulse of this industry and you also run a. Curious builder collective. So you are really hands on with the trades people and trades business owners. So we're going to talk about that. But first I want to start right at the top here. What's the origin story? How did you get into custom home building and what brought you to the point you're at today?
Mark: Well, a great question. All right. I'll keep this one short, but essentially it's so 20 years. We just had our 20th anniversary here. I think we're coming up on 21 in May, which is just wild how fast that goes. But I started a lawn mowing business back in high school. My mom and dad were builders and interior designers.
And I knew I didn't want to do what they did. Cause I was the kid who firstborn kid, you don't want to do what your parents do. I mean, great modeling. I mean, my parents are very, and I are very close. In fact, I've interviewed my dad in the podcast actually a year ago, I interviewed my dad and I told my mom just last yesterday that I'm going to bring her on.
She was the designer. And I said, I want to talk to, so I've learned a lot from both of them. I mean, we'll start there. You know, I'm a parent of three now, I didn't realize at the time being the son of an entrepreneur. I mean, I honestly, I thought everyone's dad was an [00:03:00] entrepreneur and mom was an entrepreneur.
I just thought when that's when you grow up with, you think everyone is that way. And I learned so many things that are just basic. I remember early on, I might be doing a high school report, who knows what it was, but I remember asking my dad, like, what makes you a successful builder? And his answer was, he's like, honestly, it's not that the competition is that great.
It's that they're that bad. And as. point is the bar is pretty low. He's like, say what you're going to do and do what you're going to say. And he said, look people in the eyes, give people a firm handshake, return people's phone calls, open the doors for old people and respect your elders. Like that's pretty much the playbook.
And you'd think like, that's not really that complicated. Honestly, the biggest thing is communication. That's always been my hot button. And I think anyone who owns a business or wants to own a business, if communication isn't one of your top priorities, it needs to be because I do think most people appreciate speedy response.
I'm actually, actually in 20 years, I sometimes, and owners can agree with this, I think, but sometimes we become a prison of our own communication and we won't [00:04:00] empower our own teams to grow. Cause if I keep jumping into the fray to answer some question of my project manager or somebody else, I'm not allowing them the space.
Oh, Mark's going to save it. Oh my. And before I knew it, I'm just doing all the work and I'm not empowering them. So there's a tricky side of this communication, but in general, we're Good communication just means there's a, this old saying, I think it's Bernie Brown. She's made it famous, which is just clear as kind.
And I think when you can be clear in your delivery of what you're saying, and if you can just explain it clearly to your clients and just really own it, I think the only difference between myself now and 20 years ago, well, there's actually quite a few differences, but I think as you get older, you realize, like, I guess to relate to football.
Tom Brady said, you know, if he could have the brain that he had at the end of his career at the beginning, just everyone talks about it. Once you become sort of a veteran, like, yes, a lot of your physical skills diminish, but your mental skills and your confidence and like your clients can just see it come out of you in the way that you hold yourself in your confidence.
And a lot of it is you just believing your own message. [00:05:00] And that does come with time. I don't think you can I mean, there is that adage fake it till you make it. And there's some truth to that. But ultimately, once you've done something, we often say, like, I don't need to practice. Like I've built homes for 20 years.
Like I don't need to practice. Like I'm good at what I do. And that competence comes out in your confidence. And so I think that's very clear. So anyway, going back to the beginning, I had a lawn mowing business. I was mowing all the neighbor's yards, making pretty good money, actually, if I recall. And anyway, so I'm like, well, this is pretty good.
I remember printing off these little cards that said professional lawnmower. And I was thinking that was so crazy. It's like, I don't, I don't own a business. Can I even say professional, but you know, I think I made like 10, 000 bucks a summer back in the mid nineties and I had a trailer, I'd go around and before I know it, I'm writing receipts and anyway, did pretty good.
I sold it. I actually sold the company or my book of business to somebody when I went into college and I think I maybe sold it for five, 10 grand, but you know, for a college kid, like. I thought that was pretty cool, paid for one tuition or one year of schooling. Actually, oddly enough, I went to school for communication, which is ironic because I'm not sure I learned anything.[00:06:00]
And now that I'm in podcasting, it's like that actually is applicable, but I don't remember anything from 20 years ago. Their podcasting wasn't really a thing. So anyway, I was in sales. I sold copiers for one year. So I learned a lot about, again, communication, follow up, you know, your lead tree, client management systems, things like that.
But then I was like, this isn't very fulfilling. I, that was the only job I've ever had in my entire life. I was wearing a suit every day. I hated it. And I liked the competition, you know, it was a competition on, I did a lot of athletics and so I love competition, but. It was if you made 100 phone calls, then you would get 20 responses.
And of those 20 responses, you'd get six meetings. And of those six meetings, you'd get four closed. And so it became this numbers game. Obviously, the more calls you had, the more meetings you would get, the more meetings you'd get, the more likely you were. So it became, it was very clear, like this number tree of how it went down the road.
Anyway, that wasn't very fulfilling after about a year. And so. My mom and dad were retired, so I didn't really have to worry about passing the torch. And I don't think I really wanted that. I'm sure there was a part of me that's like, I didn't want someone to give me something personally. Now after 20 years, I [00:07:00] realized that that is a complete, I have a whole podcast I've done on people that think that their business is handed to kids.
You trust me, you got to earn it. I don't care what generation you are. Each generation gets exponentially harder than the first, because you have to learn a lot of this stuff in ways that you can't really learn other than just doing it. Anyway, one of my uncles who was also in building said, why don't you build a house?
And I was like, wow, that's a novel concept. And so I borrowed some money, built a house. I'm like, this is amazing. Sold my Jetta, bought a Silverado, got my building license. And that was 20 years ago. And I just started building and just. I basically just listen to my clients. I had really strong relationships with my trade partners.
I mean, even as I was a little kid, I used to run around the job sites with my dad with that, you know, I'd steal the framers hammers and I was pretty quick. So I would steal the framers hammers. His name was Kenny. We were and I would run up into the attics. And like monkey bar it and see if he could chase me.
He must've chased me once. Otherwise he never would've done it. It's like a dog wants to play catch. And like, once you play catch once with that dog, that dog is never going to leave you alone. [00:08:00] And this analogy, I'm the dog anyway. So I always had great relationships. So, you know, I've never really been the expert.
I've always sort of been the guide because I tell my clients all the time. I'm not the expert, but I surround myself with really smart people. And I'm not afraid of asking for help. I've often said that I think asking for help is the most underused word in the English language, help, because if you genuinely mean it and you, I would ask, you know, I asked my designers, Hey, help me.
What do you think we should do in this situation? Or I would ask other peers. That's probably the best advice I could ever give a business owner. And I still use it all the time. You know, when I'm dealing with a challenging thing, and even though I'm experienced, Talking this out, a lot of times we know the answer within ourselves, but it's kind of that, you know, there's a verse in the Bible.
It says iron sharpeneth iron. It's the practicing back and forth of what you probably already know, but then you kind of work out the edges on it until you develop this thing that you're like, yeah, that's it. That's what I need to do in this situation. And so, yeah, we kind of went on a number of gopher holes on that one, but yeah, I guess that was the [00:09:00] origin story.
And I guess 20 years later, here I am.
Brien: Wow. Okay. And I, maybe I missed this. It was your dad, a home builder too?
Mark: He was, he was a builder and he built like 40 homes a year. So he's much more of a production builder, but he was still custom home builder at that time. And I build about four homes a year, much higher end.
We're kind of in today's world. We're kind of in the one and a half, 2 million to 5 million range. And then our remodels are probably two, 300, 000 to a million, depending on the area they are in the cities, teardowns, that kind of thing. And I think his price point was more in the two 50 to 400 range, but he was But again, that was back in the seventies and eighties.
And so there's gotta be some inflation adjustment there, but sure. And my mom was an interior designer. So I always say I learned my business acumen from my dad, but I probably learned my people skills from my mom. And she was an interior designer. And you know, I spoke about this recently on the curious builder podcast, and it was just that I don't really like that line and people entrepreneurs heard a lot of the client is always right.
In fact, I probably hate it because I don't agree with it on [00:10:00] any level. First of all, I don't think the word always. I mean, there's pretty much almost nothing. I, you could probably say water is wet, but that's not even true. Cause I'm, it's frozen anyway. There's just so few things that when you say the word always, it's like, I'm already, my red flags are up.
I'm like, Nope, I'm not sure I buy the statement. And so I think that the idea behind it, that you want to please your client, you want to make them happy, which is really what the core of that is. Quote is if I ever had a client quote it to me, that would be a huge red flag. One of the things I think is really important for any business owner is identifying your ideal client.
And this is something that I had no idea what that even meant until probably three years ago. And so whether you're out there listening and you own a business or you're gonna start one, understanding who your client, I think there's that old saying, begin with the end in mind. It's the two sides of the coin because I can argue anything but like There's a lot of benefit to knowing where you're going and then that's your goal and you go there, but there's also a lot of benefit of not knowing and just having a lot of willpower.
Just be like, I'm going to do this. Like I started the podcast without really any [00:11:00] thought of where it was going to go and it's exploded. We'll talk about that later in the podcast. Custom homes like I just knew I really wanted to build a home. I didn't know anything. I just got in there and just did it.
And I think sometimes people can. And themselves to death and they never do anything. And sometimes the only way to learn is just go out and do it. I was a cross country running coach for a long time. And it's like, you know, we had this one kid, Elliot Gattis was his name and bless his heart. He came out, he was a pretty big kid.
And the first, I don't know, a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months. He couldn't even run a mile when he first came out. But by the end of the year, he was. He was running five, six miles a day. No problem. My point is just start somewhere. And yes, the idea of running a race or running a marathon or doing any long distance event sounds really daunting, but it doesn't start there.
It starts with the one mile. And if you can't make one mile fine, run a half a mile, walk a half a mile, whatever it takes, and then with that reputation, that building block, then you'll get to what your goal is. And business is no different.
Brien: Yeah, I like to use the term there, uh, compound effort, [00:12:00] start small, start building, but you have to start somewhere.
And we talk about this on the show all the time, that action over everything, you just have to pick a spot and just start, just do it. Like the Nike, the greatest slogan ever invented in marketing was just do it. And that applies so much to entrepreneurship because, and I can speak to this as well, the number one thing, whenever I'm about to take the next leap, the only thing holding me back is me.
And it's because of the either, whether it's imposter syndrome or the fear of putting myself out there for whatever this is, you know, I did it for the first handful of years of my business. And anytime I'm about to take a leap, I have to look in the mirror and be like. The only reason this leap hasn't happened yet is because it's me.
And I'm curious if you've had any of those moments throughout your career, where starting years ago to maybe even up into the last year, were there any times where you looked at what you were doing and decided that this has to start with me and taking this, whatever this action might be.
Mark: Nothing comes to [00:13:00] mind.
I guess what I'm thinking of a little bit is sometimes, you know, we can get burned. You know, failure. isn't a negative thing. In fact, failing is really important to anybody's success. I mean, you, you look at, I mean, obviously since we're talking about just do it, you know, Nike, I mean, obviously Michael Jordan was famously cut from his high school basketball team and came back, worked hard all winter and came back better than before and went on to do what he did.
I think people like Winston Churchill lost tons of elections before he became prime minister at a very important time in history. Abraham Lincoln, I think it was like crazy, lost like 20 elections or something nuts. And then at the end came through it. So I, we learned so much from failure. I don't know if I can think of an exact example to your question, but I can think of lots of failures and I think I heard someone recently say that their company is really good at failing fast.
And I like that as point is, is if like, you're going to fail, fail, fast, figure it out and then move on like a band, like get rid of it. And I think recognizing that you're going down as a valuable asset. And I don't think I've done a good job at that. You know, I tend to be a [00:14:00] very loyal person and most people would think that's good.
And I do think it's good. However, I've been loyal to the fault of employees that I've had that I was unwilling to. I'm such, I often joke that my personality is such that it meets where optimism and delusion meet, which makes me great at sales. It makes me terrible at an HR department because I think, Oh, they can be better.
Oh, they're going to get better. And some of the owner syndrome is, is that what drives you to be an owner, what drives you to be the entrepreneur? You think everyone has that? Not everybody does. I'm not saying that everybody can't, but not everyone has it. I can't speak to if they can get it or not. That's beyond my brain power or analysis to comment on.
But. I will say that everyone in your company isn't an entrepreneur. It doesn't mean they can't act like one. It doesn't mean they can't, you can't be trained, especially if they're excited about, but that's where company culture comes in really strongly. Cause not everyone wants to do it. And you know, I think people on the outside look in and they might say, Oh man, you know what, Brian, Mark, you guys own your business.
You got it made in the shade and like, dude, I don't [00:15:00] know. Like I have three kids. I'm not sure I'd want them to own a business. I mean, I don't know. I want them to be educated. I want them to have, if they're passionate about it, like I want them to do what they're passionate about. But my wife works at the hospital when she's off, like she's off, like that's pretty nice nights, weekends, nothing to worry about.
You own your own business, especially a home builder like mine. That's actually one of the reasons why I didn't want to be a home builder, you know, back in the eighties and nineties, I remember the phone would ring at like two o'clock in the morning. I'd hear my dad pick it up down the hall. And the next morning at breakfast, I'd say, what was that?
It's like, oh, it was raining. Someone's roof was leaking. And I was like, man, what business calls you at two o'clock in the morning? And so anyway, I guess my point is, is that owning a business is not all it's cracked up to be. It's, it's very rewarding. It's great. I mean, I do love it personally. My ADHD probably could never, sometimes I wonder after 20 years, like, oh man, can I go in corporate America?
And all my friends are just like, dude, you went last. Two days in corporate America, you just won't be able to handle it. Anyway, you kind of have to, you really do have to have a lot of passion. And I think if I had to [00:16:00] choose one thing, like to pick somebody, if they're going to own a business, honestly, I think passion and willpower, throwing some communication for good measure.
And I think you've got a pretty good potent cocktail of success.
Brien: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Mark, the more you talk, the more I realize how much we have in common. Having ran a. Long care business, went to college, got into corporate, dropped out of corporate, started a business, married a wife who works in a hospital where you're, it's like, I'm looking in the mirror here who she also God bless her because she allows me to do this entrepreneur thing while still having her steady income and having insurance and all that jazz behind every strong entrepreneur is an incredible wife or partner.
But you mentioned the communication aspect of being a business owner, and I realized this and probably about the last year, two years here in my business is if I focus on communication, which for me personally, I know that's a strength of mine. If I over communicate with my clients. Then I know the risk of losing them or of things falling through the crack [00:17:00] drastically falls, which is great for business and great for the client.
But I've realized in, especially in the trades and I shouldn't just pick on the trades because this is true across so many industries, but the lack of the communication ability, whether it's between business owner and team or teams and customers or owners and customers. It really results in either a less than desired experience or just poor internal culture because there's a lack of communication or communication leadership when you say being a strong communicator is obviously strength of yours, but.
How do you implement that across your company, across the people who work with you or the contractors who work with you, who are not necessarily, you know, your employees and then making sure that that's related to the customer? What does that look like in your business?
Mark: That's a good question. I think it kind of is almost like a three part answer.
So I guess I'll start with the first one, which is this is something my dad shared that I say all the time. To budding entrepreneurs and really to myself to you can be a good builder in [00:18:00] my case and bad at business and you won't make it. You could be a bad builder and be good at business and you would make it and hopefully you're good at both.
I think that's true about most businesses and I think one thing that we don't do a very good job of. Is educating at high school and middle school just basic life skills so much of what I know I've modeled after successful parents, and I'm very fortunate that way. Not everyone has had that experience, but to watch that firsthand of how you treat people of your soft skills, your communication skills, follow through ethics.
You know, I was getting a culture. constantly. I had no idea what kind of gift that was until now I'm a parent and a business owner. I just didn't know. I wish we had something more like that. I mean, this podcast could be solely devoted to life skills 101. And honestly, in high school, I wish they had like one credit from the time you're like eighth grade to your senior year, you had to like learn just some basic stuff because it would be so helpful just to our society, frankly.
But So anyway, that would be my first response on the business. The second part [00:19:00] about communication, there are business tools that help us. So we use something called builder trend. It's an online portal where our clients can log into it. And our project manager, every Friday, we ask them, there's a daily log or a Friday log, we call it, and they will send a recap.
And this has come down from me because I know I would really like it and the software is actually built for it. And it's really built for people that you're building for, let's say you're in Arizona building for a snowboard from Minnesota and they're maybe not there. Whether you're there or not, good communication will span that, that distance.
And so what I like about it is every Friday, our project manager will do a recap, you know, Hey, Monday was sheet rock on this job, Tuesday, you know, we, whatever it'll just basically outline in real high level, not really micro detail, just, Hey, sheet rock has continued next week. We're going to be painting the following week.
We've got cabinets coming in. We have three important decisions coming up. We'll meet at our next meeting. So just a quick look behind, look at, and a look ahead is suit every Friday is super helpful to all clients. [00:20:00] Bye. The other thing that we've only started doing this probably about two years ago is we keep a biweekly meeting with all of our, because we're a smaller company, we are a company of four every, so let's say I'm building a house for you, Brian, is we would meet every two weeks on, let's say a Tuesday at 9am and if we don't need to meet, we'll cancel it.
I don't like meeting to meet and we'll have an agenda where we're emailing it to the day before. I mean, this is basic stuff, guys. Anybody listening like this is not rocket science, but I will say what this is a lot of hospitality and one thing that building in particular could take a huge cue from is the restaurant world and the hotel world hospitality.
We have most businesses have a lot to learn from those two in particular. Like when you go out to eat. Most of what you remember is the ambiance, three things, the ambiance, like what it feels like in the restaurant, your service, like obviously how they served you and food. And honestly, I'm not sure what order is most important.
I think every person might be different. Like if I had to rate those on a scale, if you had amazing food, but terrible service, you're not going back. You might go back to eat a different server. [00:21:00] If the food is that good, if you have great food and great service, it could probably overcome. A poor atmosphere, and obviously the gold standard is all three, but it's a little bit like that old adage.
You can pick your price, you can pick your service, or you can pick the person. Like, which one do you want to, but you're not going to get all three. Like in a building world, you're not going to get the best home ever with the best service ever with the best people ever at the lowest cost. Like, wait a minute, that's going to be the highest cost.
And so there's something that triangle is always going to be readjusting a little bit. I think that's true of almost all businesses. I can't think of one that wouldn't apply to. And then the last part is communication outside of what I can control. So like my electrician is, he's a subcontractor. So I'm the contractor.
He's a subcontractor by the definition, right? He's sub to my contract, but he's my people. So obviously I am picking people that A can do the work, B have good value, but also represent my brand to a certain degree. We actually recently parted ways with a long time electrician and honestly, it wasn't his skill set.
His price was a problem. He was getting a little high on [00:22:00] the hog, but honestly, his attitude was a real problem. He continually, especially my female clients, they just, he really rubbed them the wrong way and I can handle the abrasion. But if my clients are telling me that they're just not feeling comfortable around somebody, that is a huge red flag to me.
And so that was something that my client had to communicate to me so that I was aware that it was a problem. And then the problem sort of took care of itself. But I guess the root question you had is how do I control their communication? Ultimately, it's up to my project manager and myself to hold them accountable for communication.
And some subs are way better than others. Like, my cabinet shop is amazing. Like, he gets me bids fast. He gets me feedback fast. If anything, he's almost getting it faster to me than I can handle and then it's up to my PM to like prioritize the communication to the client and then I have somebody like my excavator, he's great and he doesn't interact a ton with the client other than if they have little kids, you know, they love to come sit on Troy's lap, everyone loves to dig a hole, even my kids have like the builders chop liver excavator.
Oh, dude, you're living high on the kids
Brien: hog right there. [00:23:00] That's 34. And if I see an excavator, I'm just like my two year old, I'm running towards like, oh, the excavator. It's totally
Mark: all demo day. I've had a number of adults that want to get in there and demo the house. But anyway, the point is he's terrible at billing.
I mean, awful at billing. Now that's one of the few things that you could probably be a client is okay. If you're bad, actually, I'm going to contradict myself. The client is fine with not getting a bill, but good communication is even good billing. Like I've had architects in the past and excavators actually, that because their building was so slow and I'm talking like it took months past due.
The problem is, is the time to bill, you need to be very accurate in billing and consistent. And it's usually not a problem if you deal with it in the moment. So like if you hit, let's say in my case, you hit bad soil, which is just, I won't go into it on the podcast, but you hit bad soil and nobody, nobody can control that.
I can't control it. You client can't control excavator can't control it. Like that's an act of God. It's actually written into our contract. It's this act of God. It's like below the surface. We don't, we don't know what's there unless we did investigation. And let's say it costs, you know, nine or 10, [00:24:00] 000 on a 2 million bill.
It's not the end of the world, but nobody wants to, it's like the first thing, it's like day one, you're excited day two, you hit bad soil and you got like, that's no, it's just terrible timing. But like, if you didn't tell somebody or if we didn't tell that to the client to like three months later, now you've made a little problem into a really big problem.
Big problem. It's no different than like a wound on your arm that you let go. Septic or just, you know, puss up or something. You, it, that's where communication is super critical. And if you are not billing on a regular basis, even for small stuff, people forget about stuff we're very much in the know. So anyway, I don't know if that's the answer you were looking for, but you got a bunch of them.
Brien: No, that's perfect. Well, it's what happens when you ask the three prong questions. But I loved your, the analogy there, uh, or not an analogy. You're talking about little problems that can become big if you don't communicate. And I know we're going down a rabbit hole here with communication, but it's so important because I learned this the hard way multiple times over in my business where something goes a little bit wrong and you're like, well, let me fix that real quick, or, you know, let me do this and patch [00:25:00] it over yet.
It drags out the problem another two weeks or three weeks or a month, whatever it is. And before long, there's, you know, you're over your budget or the, the results aren't there and you haven't said a word in three weeks. And meanwhile, the client is in the dark. If you're not communicating proactively, your client is in the dark.
And I don't know, it's, I always tell people it's kind of like back in the world of dating. It was like, if you don't hear from your significant other for a week and then two weeks and then three weeks, and then you're like, Now you're like, well, now I'm just going to spiral into like anything and everything is wrong.
Like they don't like me anywhere. We're, we must not be dating. This is terrible. Right? Well, simple communication can solve that. And it's the same between the business and the client relationship where you have to tell them when things aren't right. But it's also really smart to tell them when things are right and things are going well, just drop in and say, Hey, in my case with Martin, you know, we had this, we launched this, this account on Monday.
Here's Friday. We've got five new hot leads that came in. I saw you close two of them. Congratulations. Like that's amazing. And it's such a big thing.
Mark: We have [00:26:00] found that that I'd mentioned that bi weekly meeting. Not only does that organically happen, cause you have something and it could be virtual and it could be in person.
Obviously, if we're on a job site, you know, we're meeting the client on the job site if it's appropriate, but the communication sometimes, you know, if we're running four or five jobs, it becomes just a lot of communication. I mean, a big part of it. And if someone was to hire you to build a custom home. And you said your number one thing is like, I'm a great communicator, which I certainly have said, but like, that's probably not why they're buying their home.
You're buying a home. Cause they, you do great architecture, you do great work and they want to spend time with you, but yeah, but my point is, is like, if you say you're great at communication and then you don't fall over, the client feels like that you should be communicated more, but you're not doing it.
Now you're not delivering on the thing that you said. And what's problem sometimes with your team is you could spend every day all day just talking, you know, let's say you got a group, let's just think about from a friend standpoint, that's what the weekends are for. You got a group text with like your brothers, your cousins, your friends, whoever your group is, you know, you could spend three hours talking about football or whatever you're into.
And before you know it, you've [00:27:00] the whole day has gone by and you haven't done a single thing like that is a danger of different kind of like unguided communication. And so what I have found by having that dedicated time, I will never schedule something within that 90 minute window or one hour window for that client.
Is now they actually don't pester you and that's not a negative way, but they're not bringing up a bunch of small random things because guess what, it can wait till it comes to the meeting in person and then the stuff that maybe didn't need to be talked about just falls away. And then you're talking about the important stuff.
It also allows us the time and room. Like if you ask me, Brian, hey, I need a quote on adding a wet bar or I need a quote on a different kind of material on whatever. It takes me time to go get that bid, compile the bid, run it past the designers. I mean, I can't just do that like a snap. It's not like an a la carte menu, at least in my business.
It takes me some time to figure it out. I need that two weeks to really get all these information. Then on the agenda, it's like, Hey, to do this upgrade is 7, 965. We can do it. If you say yes, you know, it's so much more professional and you've also set the expectation. This is something else I've [00:28:00] learned for those that are either own a business or are going to start one.
And it's like, It starts at the top and because I'm the first point of contact as I lead the sales and my name is on the door and the sign, as you say, what I say trickles all the way down and we've had contract changes. We've had operational changes that maybe I went to a continuing education class, or I listened, I interviewed someone on the podcast and I love what they did on their business.
It's going to take me at least a year to get it through my business cycle. Now, Cause my business cycle is a long time. It might take, let's just forget how long it takes me to acquire a client, but let's say I'm building you a 5, 000 square foot house. It's going to take me about a year to build it for you, Brian.
So if I'm six months into the build and I want to do something different, I've already communicated the expectations. I can't change mid flow. So it could even be a bad thing. Like. I think I've talked about this all the time. I podcast about business. Like I didn't go to school. Actually, I did go to school for business, but they didn't teach me this.
I didn't know what the difference between margin and markup was. So I was [00:29:00] operating on markup, which for those that don't know the difference, go look it up. It's important. It's about a 2 percent Delta. So if you think you're making 20 percent net profit, you're actually making 17 and a half or 18 percent and you span that for 20 years.
I've left millions of dollars on the table because I didn't know the difference. And so I talk about it all the time. I'm not afraid to say that because I don't want other people to go down. We work too hard, all of us to not know the difference between margin and markup and also educating our clients.
Because honestly, that's just knowledge. Knowledge shouldn't be the thing in my opinion, at least in this scenario business of what makes you successful or not. Hopefully it's your hard work, your communication, like just because you didn't know two plus two didn't equal four. It's a terrible analogy because you should know that.
But I guess my point is, is like, so you went in corporate America. If anyone who's been in corporate America, like they have accountants and they have, you know, CPAs and like they are going to get, that is the one benefit of having a much bigger structure. If you start right out of school, which is where we can go with the rest of this podcast, which I highly advise that there are so many paths into the trades of [00:30:00] owning a business.
In a way that I don't know if any other field has such opportunity to buy a business or start one, then construction, but listening to podcasts like this, educating yourself on these business principles by talking to other business owners, that's the only way you're going to learn. And, you know, I guess that is a school of hard knocks because that I've now have learned that lesson very painfully, but I paid for that education, unfortunately, unknowingly.
And where I was going with this with your margin can't remember where I was going down that rabbit hole exactly
Brien: well we're talking about how these are things you can apply towards starting a business in the trades are in construction and knowing or having the just the wherewithal to reach out and ask people for help ask people for the education or.
Become an apprentice. You know, I, you could probably fill in the blanks better than I, but I think these are the types of things that you can go to school for for a little bit. You know, you can learn stuff in school and trades where you can learn the technical side of things, but it's kind of in the school of hard knocks where you get out there and you're like, all right, I'm learning from [00:31:00] somebody who started this thing.
They created something from nothing. And there's a lot of knowledge in their, in their head that they can share with me that I can gain and then go start taking my lumps, right? Go. And I don't want to make it sound awful, but business ownership is freaking hard, right? We already talked about that today where you're going to take your lumps, but it's a matter of how much you learn from them.
So that's kind of the path we're headed down. I'd love to get your opinion on that.
Mark: Well, I think so. Obviously I'm very passionate about construction because I'm in it, but I would say. Well, these are facts. So I believe construction and both commercial and residential, it have the largest percent of GDP effect in the country.
I mean, our country depends greatly on the American dream of owning your home. And it's great. That's a whole nother podcast about. Owning a home has become much more difficult and much more expensive, which if you are all, most of our tax laws are written that if you don't own a home, you're missing out on huge growth vehicles.
But that's, like I said, there's a whole nother podcast. We can talk about that. [00:32:00] But owning a business that supports that is equally important or being involved with that, because that business is always going to exist. It's fundamental, right? Food and housing. I mean, you need shelter. The cavemen were building, finding rock caves or, you know, thatch.
I mean, it's just fundamental to who we are as humans that we need some form of shelter. Yeah. Anyway, owning, being a part of that is really important because there'll always be business around that where you fit is more specifically, you know, unique to each person and kind of their personality and what their interests are.
Right now. I think I heard a stat the other day. That's 10, 000 baby boomers are retiring every day. I don't know this number. What percentage of them own businesses? A huge percent. I don't know what it is. I bet it's more than 70, 80%. It's gotta be massive. And so where I'm going with this is we've seen in construction in particular that I think the stat was like for every seven plumbers that retire, only one journeyman is taking their place.
So you have a massive attrition rate. Guess what happens when that happens? A couple of things. One is, uh, [00:33:00] Prices are going to skyrocket, which is not good for housing in general. However, your wages are going to go up quite quickly as well, because now we have a major supply and demand influx. So as a custom home builder, now I'm lucky because I've built 20 years of relationships, honestly, with one plumber.
Now his son is taking over the business, so I know I'm good. He's younger than I am, so. We're good. , and so, but my point is, is that most of the plumbers, hvac, electricians, the trades that are doing all the work, you know, Mike Rowe made a FA famous with Dirty Jobs and continues to do so. He's very involved with, you know, with this next level is there's massive opportunity.
So I think if I could do a do-over. I'm not sure I'd be a builder now. I can't undo a do over and I do love design and I like what I do, but in terms of making money for one thing, I can't sell Mark Williams custom homes. I just learned that a couple of years ago when I was rebranding my company, we had one builder of the year in 2021 in Minnesota, and I was thinking, you know, this is going to be amazing.
But you realize like if I have a [00:34:00] job, I don't have a business because the adage is if I could leave my business for three months and it could operate without me, that is a business. My business couldn't operate for, it could probably go one billing cycle. It could probably go a month, maybe a month and a half.
But honestly, I'm not going to sell anything new. I don't have a sales system without me and I'm a smart, not to put everything about me, but I guess we're interviewing me. So I'll just reflect on my own journey. But the point is, is if, if you're out there and you own a business and you couldn't take off three months or six months.
You don't have a business. You have a job and that's kind of a sobering wake up because at least for what I do, that means I can't sell my business are very unlikely in construction. Companies are notoriously difficult to sell unless you have lots of land and things like that. But guess what? If you're a plumber.
If you're an electrician, if you're an HVAC, you have a book of business, guess what? You have 40 builders you work with. You're not dependent on just me, you've got 40 of them. And now, you have residual income, you have these repeating client bases, you're selling product on a, you know, that you can do warranty [00:35:00] programs with homeowners once they move in.
That is very attractive. I saw something recently that a lot of Harvard grads were not going to go do the whole Wall Street, 100 hours a week thing. They were buying mom and pop HVAC and electric and plumbing companies across the country. They're essentially printing money because guess what? You don't have to start this whole business.
I never even thought when I was 23 years old, when I started my company, I never even, never even crossed my mind that I could buy a business a, I had no money. So I thought I had to start something from scratch, which that didn't make a lot of sense either. But your earlier comment, Brian, about like, to me, let's find an industry and try a few of them apprentice with an electrician.
Now there is some schooling involved there, but that's fine. To your point about trade school, there's trade schools for HVAC, there's trade schools for plumbing. But bottom line is, is within a few years, you could own the company. How wild is that? You're not going to go into 3M or Best Buy and in a few years own the company.
Are you kidding me? And so there is massive opportunity. That's where the real opportunity is. [00:36:00] Or, you learn From someone that's you're surrounded by a great company, and now you can go take your trades and go start your own business. That that's really what you want to do. But for me right now, if I could do a do over in 2024, I would go work for, let's say, Brian is a 60 year old HVAC company.
Your kids don't want to get into it. And guess what? You would love for your legacy to continue. And you have a very profitable business. You know, you're making 500 million a year. I don't know what your numbers are. And it doesn't really matter for this analogy. You're making, you've been in business for 30, 40 years, you're making money.
And so guess what? You would like nothing more than to have some Mark Williams come learn from you. And then do some sort of transition ownership. And so I don't even need money. That's the genius because I could work for you, Brian, and say, tell you what, Brian, if in five years I would like to own your company and you look at me and you're like, Oh man, this kid's got it going on.
This would be really cool. Tell you what, two years you buy some equity and then we're going to do a buyout phase over the next five years. You know, I don't know how this [00:37:00] works. I just know the concept of it. You'd hire a lawyer. You'd hire a few people to help with this transition. And here this in this analogy, it's me, Mark Williams.
I didn't have a single cent to my name. And within five years, I own that HVAC company. And maybe I continue to pay some sort of legacy cost to that person until that buyout period ends. But now, five years later, I own this HVAC company. I'm making five, 600, 000 a year of very good living. And now I bypassed all kinds of different things.
And I'm not saying you don't have to learn. And this is obviously a rosy, happy ending story. But That is out there, because most businesses close shop, they don't sell, so how many businesses out there are available, if you just open up the door and say, what would it take for me to be an owner of your company?
Brien: I love that, as you were saying that, I was thinking to myself. Dang, you know, there's a lot of talk out there and like private equity has gotten into the trades. Like that's a big thing right now is private equity. Yeah. Private equity is buying up a lot of trades businesses because they're not idiots.
They see the profitability, they see the recurring business [00:38:00] and they see the opportunity. So there is a lot of PE going in and buying trades businesses, which is great and all. So I think some firms are better than others based on, you know, what they want to continue doing with the business. However, I love your idea of.
Let's say, you know, you want to be an entrepreneur, you know, we want to start a business, but you look at, I'm gonna use lawn care since we have that adjacent to one another. I'm gonna use that as an example. By the way,
Mark: Brian, when you, when you still smell fresh cut grass, doesn't it transplant you back to being like in high school and like, I used to listen to Louie the Moore book tapes.
I'm dating myself here. I like the little Walkman with the tapes, you know, listen to Louie the Moore book tapes while I'd mow the yards, but that smell of the fresh cut glass. I mean, it just, every time I go by someone's yard, who's getting cut, it's just like transports me.
Brien: Oh, I love it. Does the same thing to me.
And I tell my wife, the only place I'm allowed to have an ego is with my yard because I renovated our whole front yard. It's the finest turf in Ohio. And I just love going out there and mowing it, especially in the spring and early summer when the, when it's, you know. The grass is blooming. You just cut it and you get that fresh thing.
You're [00:39:00] like, Oh gosh, that's a million bucks. I love it. But using that as an example, you know, in my mind, I always thought you had to go and start the business from the ground up. Like, that's just the way to do it. That's what I did with my business. But when you mentioned that. You don't even need a dollar.
You don't need a buck to, to get into this business. And I can tell you, I'm only 34 and I love it when younger people approach me and you're like, Hey, can I like work with you? Can I learn from you? Can I do this? That's why I do a lot of coaching in my space. I guarantee you, you know, like you said, a 60 year old boomer, who's maybe getting ready to pass a torch, but I know a lot of them who don't have someone to pass it to.
If a 20 something 30 something year old person comes up and says, Hey, I'd love to just work with you, learn from you. And ultimately my goal is to own this business. I guarantee you that owner would at least nine out of 10 of them would be like. Oh my gosh. Yes. This is incredible. And you get to skip so many steps.
You're going to learn a lot. There's going to be a lot of bumps in the road, but you don't have to invest your money. You don't have to buy all this [00:40:00] equipment. And most importantly, you don't have to acquire these customers. They already have a base. Like it's, it's almost a no brainer.
Mark: I agree. And I mean, just something, I mean, that's what education, you know, that's a good transition in the time remaining.
To talk about the Curious Collective, because it kind of goes into this. So, I mentioned before, just briefly, so I started the Curious Builder Podcast two years ago. And this is, maybe I'll just quick give you the intro. So, I was on a Builders Podcast, a good friend of mine. Actually, I went to this thing called Contractor Coalition.
So, I'm a small builder in Minnesota. And my wife said, Hey, I think down in Nashville, they're doing this thing called the contractor coalition where 30 bills from around the country get together for three days and they learn from each other. And I'm like, I don't like when one person speaks to like a big audience reminds me of college, like a thousand people.
And like, I learned like what we're doing right now. I learned by talking, I learned by small group. Anyway, I called one of the head people there and I said. It's 10, 000 bucks for three days. It's expensive. And I said, is this worth my time? And she said, you'll make your money in the first hour. And I was like, dang, that's confident.
Like I'm in like, that's what I needed to hear. So anyway, and [00:41:00] she was right. We talked about contracts in a way that I was doing my design agreement incorrectly, where I was crediting it against the future job, which I was basically giving away my work for free. And anyway, long story short, I wanted, that's expensive.
And I had to travel to do it. And it was three days. I wanted something. I'm not a very private person. I'm very open. If you ask me a sincere question, even if I'm your competitor, like I'll tell you. And so, you know, that puts me in sort of a rare space with a microphone talking about anything. I don't do it from the standpoint that I have this need to share everything that I have.
It's more like, I want to tell you all the ways that I've failed so that if some of those resonate with you, you can avoid that failure. That's why I was talking about margin markup, because that is the huge one. And I've had a number of people say, I didn't know that either. And I said, well, I hope you didn't go 18 years without knowing it like I did anyway.
So we started last year. I thought it'd be fun. You know, we do this thing called the builder 20 and built. It's been around with the national home builders association for quite some time. And you would find 20 builders. That would be of similar revenue [00:42:00] from around the country. Not in your same market.
You sign non disclosure agreements. You get together twice a year and you share everything, your contracts, your operations, your handbook, like everything. And the idea is like, we have so much to learn from each other. Why does Brian have to come up with his handbook and how he does this and how he does market, like you do this over here in a different state.
Why don't we talk together? And I'm like, I don't even need to be in a different state. I can be in the same city. Cause I just don't care. Cause at the end, my fundamental, the reason you're going to build with me, Brian has is not going to be based on my price. Cause if we're competing on the same strata, then we're building the same with the same materials.
So therefore it shouldn't be about price because we're using the same stuff. Then it's the little small nuance at the end of the day. The only thing that really matters is, do you want to spend the next two years of your life with me? And that's okay. If the answer is no, I might not, I'm not for everybody, but if I am, let's build a home together.
So that's my underlying belief. And so therefore I don't. Personally feel threatened by another builder that knows all the things that I know or don't know because we're just different people and that's okay. And so I've started this locally called [00:43:00] the curious builder collective in Minnesota, and the first one was on banking and finance.
And we just said, you know what? Let's one of my sponsors for the podcast said, Hey, would you ever want to put something together and just see, they wanted to get in front of builders to sell their software. And I said, sure, I can put them together. We had 30 people show up in two weeks notice. And I'm like, Whoa, that's not normal because it's hard.
And where I was going with this as you know, people want to get in front of you. You talked about coaching. I get a lot of people that reach me out for my coffee. Well, if I took every coffee date, I won't have a job. I would just have coffee, which I'm annoying at baseline without much coffee. I'm super annoying.
And so I said, you know what? This is, I got something. I started the Curious Builder Collective because of that. So three weeks later, I said, and we, I want people to pay a little bit. So people pay 1, 000 to be a part of it. We meet four times a year for four hours. And my proposition was, is if you aren't willing to spend 1, 000 a year on your education.
You just don't get it. And it's amazing how often I have to actually sell it. But once you've done it, I guarantee you're going to do it again, because that is the best money you'll ever invest in your, because you're investing in yourself. You know, we have, I have to [00:44:00] hire people. I mean, it's a real cost to do this, but that has caught on like wildfire.
We have 25 builders here locally in Minnesota that we just, we've done branding, we've done marketing, we've done financing, we've done contracts. Next. And then I let the group is dictating what they want to do next year. Again, I'm not the expert. I'm just a guide. So we're all, we break into small groups of nine and we just talk, you know, it's a little bit like Jerry Bierman's conduit.
His is, it might be a little bit structured different than mine, but it's the same thing as we have so much to learn from each other. And so we're actually going, because this has been so successful, we're going into Atlanta, Austin, Texas, and Phoenix next year. Where the Curious Collective, I've found other builders that are of like mind, they'll be sort of my representatives of the Curious Builder, and I'll create all the content and all the information, but they're just my, you know, nobody knows who Mark Williams is in Atlanta, but they know who Brad Robinson is and Vince Longo, they're builders down there, and so they'll coalesce the group, they'll lead what I do up here, but it's all under this one banner of the Curious Builder, because my preposition is anybody can be the Curious Builder.
TheCuriousBuilder. com You know, [00:45:00] I just happened to be the one with the microphone, but anyway, so that's really what the collective is, which kind of piggybacks on your idea of how do we mentorship, how do we learn from each other? How do we grow as an industry? Cause the overall goal for all of this is I have a lot to learn from you.
Hopefully something you say, spark something in me to make my business better, because this idea that we all race to the bottom. And I believe I have probably, I've undercharged my clients for the work that I've done for them for my entire career. There's the talk about three phases of your career.
There's the learn, earn and return. And I joke that I missed the earning phase. So I've, I've learned and, and now I'm in this return phase. I got to go back and figure out some earning stuff. Anyway, that's the collective.
Brien: Well, I love that. And what a great idea. That was going to be one of my questions is have you navigated a way to bring it outside of Minnesota?
And obviously the answer is yes. I think that's really cool that you've probably built through your network. These builders that are in the other cities that can kind of be the conduit, if you will, to [00:46:00] mention our mutual friend, Jerry Beerman, who runs a very similar group here in Cincinnati. I think that's really cool.
And it's. Such a great point. It's probably a good one to put a book end here. I want to make sure we land the plane for it. I don't want to hold you all day here, but I could go on for hours with you. Mark. This has been a ton of fun, but having the kind of the collective stronger together, I don't want to be cliche, but across industries and specifically talking about yours and building stronger together makes way too much sense because.
If you can share your resources, if you can share your knowledge, if you can make improvements in your business that you learned from your friend in the business across town or across the state, then that everybody's winning. And now who else is winning is everybody's clients, because now you're doing your business in a more efficient or a better manner of providing a better experience in a way that you weren't familiar with before can put heads together.
Now everybody's winning. So it's, I think that's just a perfect mindset.
Mark: You know, if we have the time, I would say the thing I would add to that, we talked about this and this is something that Jerry and I connected on. I was in the middle of [00:47:00] training for my first 50 mile trail race, and I guess he's a big ultra athlete as well.
And so we bonded a little bit of on that, but. I've always kind of used the litmus test of, if I like it, I want to see who else might. So I, not that I'm going to make everyone run ultras, but I, in Minnesota, you know, we have a strong Finnish culture. I'm pretty Scandinavian. I was like, I love saunas. And so we're actually doing something this January called sauna camp and it's open to any business owner.
It's not only so open to anybody, frankly. But it's the end of January, and it's a half a day deal where we actually interviewed her on the podcast, Dr. Mel Krug, and she's gonna lead business owners through somatic breathwork, which is like a fancy word for like breathing. So like if you've ever been stressed, whether it's athletically or A sales meeting with your spouse, like just in life, you can actually breathe through the fight or flight method or a response in your physiological response and actually work by breathing.
You can actually navigate through it. You actually use that principle then to go into the cold water in a lake that we have [00:48:00] in Minnesota. And then you'll go into the sauna and then repeat. And then at the end, we're doing this big Mediterranean style meal. The reason I bring it up is it seems like last year I had a lot of guests on the podcast that talked about wellness and working on, you know, it's cliche, but it's true, you know, working on yourself or finding balance between work and life and finding where are you at in all of this?
Because if you burn out here, you're not present here. And if you have nothing to give your family, it's not going to be very long, but you have no business and everything is very in sync. And then to further that up, I was like, you know what? I'm going to do boot camp. So we're in May, we're going out to Zion National Park.
And every year I go up to the Boundary Waters, which is in Northern Minnesota, get rid of the phone. There's no phone, no alcohol. And you're just in the woods for like three, four days. I get so much energy and from nature, but also just being off the grid. And so I'm like, You know, there's this stereotype that builders, in my opinion, that this is a stereotype, that they're fat, hairy, drunk, flannel wearing, gruff people.
I don't know a single one. Actually, I know one, my plumber, I got a plumber who's pretty gruff, but [00:49:00] honestly, when I went to this contractor coalition, a second one, you know, we're up at five 30 in the morning, a couple of other guys were running with me. A couple of guys were slinging weights. You know, we have right now a group of 13 builders that are doing 75 hard.
And so it's just like, there's more out there. You just need takes people to talk about it and make it normal. So anyway, the bootcamp, we'll see who signs up. I think we have three people signed up right now. It's quite a ways away. It's in May, but the whole goal is you get off the airplane. You actually have to give me your phone.
I'll lock it in a safety deposit box. We'll have one phone that, you know, for emergency contact for people. And then we're doing two a day workouts, but it could be like long hikes in Zion National Park, which is a beautiful park. It could be running, canyoneering, biking. We'll have good meals. And then just time.
As owners, just sitting around a fire, just talking about life business. I don't care what they talk about, but the whole point is to get away from all this noise of your phone and emails and owning a business sort of like this concept, you have to check out to check in. And so anyway, there's all kinds of stuff.
We'll see if it works.
Brien: That sounds incredible. That sounds like a lot of, Oh, you should come. Yeah, I might have to. [00:50:00] That sounds awesome. Wow. Well, Mark, I've probably kept you past the prime date. I know you're a busy man. I want to thank you first of all, for coming on the show. I think we hit on a lot of things that are just vitally important to business ownership in general, but especially in the trades.
And if we've encouraged people to. Explore the trades as an option for owning a business, for starting a business, for being part of one of these businesses. I mean, the landscape is ripe for success right now. So I think you've done a fantastic job of exposing us to that. So awesome. And I don't want to glaze over the fact just your 50 mile trail run.
So you're like an ultra ultra athlete. So that's pretty cool too. You get a lot of, I'll tell you what,
Mark: you can crush a lot of book tapes and train for that. Well, listen to so many book tapes this summer. It's unreal. The problem is then there's all these great podcasts and great book tapes out there. The problem is now you get all these ideas and then you start putting them into your, into your company.
So my poor team is just like, Oh, great. You just finished another book of what he wants to implement into his business. Guess what guys? Mark has [00:51:00] another book for us.
Brien: That's awesome. Well, Mark, thank you again for joining us. Obviously I want to encourage people to go check out the curious builder podcast.
I'm sure you can find that in any pod player out there. If we have any listeners who want to reach out to you, maybe start a conversation or learn more about you. What are the best places to get in contact with you?
Mark: I mean, honestly, Instagram, both the curious builder podcast or Mark D. Williams, custom homes.
We'll get you there on Instagram. Otherwise, obviously our websites, you know, Mark D. Williams, custom homes and the curious builder. Podcast actually just curious builder. Now, oddly enough, the, well, we can talk about that offline, but yeah, you'll be able to find the curious builder and on the contact page, you can reach out to me through there.
Brien: All right. I love it. We'll make sure we have all that notated in the show notes. Well, Mark, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you very much. We'll see you next time. All righty. And that is a wrap on this episode of the millionaire university podcast. Big thanks to Mark Williams for joining me today.
I hope you all found all the information you shared with us to be incredibly valuable. And I have one favor to ask. If you enjoyed this [00:52:00] episode, please go ahead and hit the share link on your pod player and send this via text message to your friends, family, coworkers, whoever it might be that you think would enjoy this episode as well.
And of course, if you haven't already check us out at millionaire university. com. We have all sorts of goodies for you there. Can't wait to have you to check us out online and guys, thank you for tuning in and joining me on the millionaire university podcast. Brian Guerin signing off. I cannot wait to catch you on the next episode.
I hope you all go out there and crush it today.
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